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What is this?
How does one define gambling?
Published Wednesday, January 27, 2010
In 2006, asked by the local American Legion Post, Rep. Charles Newton submitted a bill that would have legalized bingo for charitable purposes within Butler County. Money collected through these games would have funded scholarships for well-deserving youth in Greenville, Georgiana and McKenzie.
However, the Christian Coalition of Alabama immediately attacked Newton and the Legionnaires for trying to propagate gambling in Butler County. Newton, citing a “bad environment” for proposing any legislation - charitable or otherwise - where gambling was concerned, quietly withdrew the bill.
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Four years later and we’re still talking about gambling. Gov. Bob Riley, his last full term in office, is intent on the banishment of gambling, in all its shapes, fashions, and forms, from Alabama.
It’s likely that, if he could, Riley would strip the very word “gambling” from the minds and memories of Alabamians and post National Guardsmen along the borders of this great state to prevent travel to Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, and Mississippi where we might gamble to contentment and bring those old vices back with us, (we’re probably getting an ‘Amen’ from some reading this, possibly the same ones that make a weekend home at Atmore, or White Hall, or Biloxi, yet feverishly oppose “gambling”).
It’s telling that Riley and Attorney General Troy King can’t agree on just what gambling is. For Riley it’s one thing. For King it’s another. For the Supreme Court of Alabama it’s this. Is it any wonder that Alabamians are at odds? When even our public officials can’t determine what is and what isn’t considered the act of “gambling?” If gambling is illegal why has Milton McGregor turned VictoryLand into the future Las Vegas of the south? Why do places like White Hall and Country Crossing even exist? Apparently it’s because there is gambling and there is...well...gambling. But only a little bit?
Going back to Newton’s bill four years ago: We would be greatly interested if someone would tell us why this would have been a bad thing. Charity bingo? A prelude to “Sin City?”
And, likely, given the current climate against “gambling” in this state, this bill won’t come up again in the near future.
But why would a child from this county need a scholarship anyway?
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Comments
Posted by fromtheoutside (anonymous) on January 27, 2010 at 1:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
How does this differ from selling raffle tickets...or is that illegal, too??
Posted by Elybesa (anonymous) on January 27, 2010 at 3:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Points well made -- both in the editorial and in the above comment.
Posted by INI (Rob Mello) on January 28, 2010 at 7:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Agreed Ely. I could go on and on about what a crock the christian coalition is. Isn't that the same group that took money from Jack Ambramhoff, or funneled it or whatever? lol yeah when I need a lecture about sin etc from them I'll ask, til then they should just shut it.
Posted by BF2C1 (anonymous) on January 28, 2010 at 11:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Guess what people? Gambling is already available 'online' right from the comforts of your Butler Co. home. Just get your Visa or MasterCard out and go to it.
I do not approve of gambling but it is already here. So all of you 'stupids' out there just go ahead and throw your money away.
Posted by FH36030 (anonymous) on January 28, 2010 at 11:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I very much respect Representative Newton. If he had pursued the legalized bingo in 2006, right now we would likely be dealing with what Jasper, Dothan, Anniston, and many other cities all over Alabama are dealing with - Casino Gambling. Butler county would be wide open to anyone's interpretation of Bingo - we don't want that. I thank God for Rep. Charles Newton!
Posted by INI (Rob Mello) on January 31, 2010 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm for a state lottery straight up. While I agree if gambling is taken too far it can become a sickness of the soul, if this area is all about being against government interference in such decisions then I suggest a referendum. WithOUT the CCA or other such hypocritical folks.
Posted by DarrylDavis (anonymous) on February 2, 2010 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Gambling is whatever Bob Riley and the Baptist church says it is. These folks live their lives in make believe and want everyone else to do the same. Isn't there something in the bible that says sow one seed and get back 100? That sounds like 100 to 1 odds .......... Place your bets in the offering plate at the Baptist church for best results.
Posted by INI (Rob Mello) on February 2, 2010 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ima put mine on the pass bar. lolol
Posted by bgarrard (anonymous) on February 2, 2010 at 12:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
When I moved to Alabama 27 years ago I was proud to live in a state whose motto was "We dare defend our rights." Now I suppose we need to change that to "defend our wrongs." It amazes me that while we have been debating and arguing over gambling all these years, it was after the Supreme Court declared electronic bingo to be slot machines and therefore illegal that municipalities all over the state decided to welcome them. Until we make them legal, we ought all to oppose them. And don't argue about scholarships or jobs. We all know that the end does NOT justify the means. If it does then lets legalize brothels so we can put our young women to work and lets select 20 county residents each year to murder and take their possessions to fund scholarships. And while we're at it, are we really suggesting a referendum where only people who agree with us are allowed to participate and are we suggesting that farming is illegal? If we are going to debate what is gambling and what is not, maybe we need to first differentiate between what is gambling and what is risk. Yes, I am a Baptist pastor but that has nothing to do with this. Since electronic bingo has been declared by the supreme court to be illegal, every decent Alabama citizen should either be opposed to it or working to make it legal.
Posted by BF2C1 (anonymous) on February 2, 2010 at 2:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sure am glad that I have some new books to read instead of listening to people argue over electric bingo. I have never seen such a divided nation as we have today.
Posted by INI (Rob Mello) on February 2, 2010 at 5:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mr. Garrard,
To address your point about upholding a law or working to change it, I'd agree... to a point. If we always upheld every law we'd be singing "God save the Queen". I think it's foolish to legislate morality. Not only that but every single time it has been attempted negative things inevitably occur. I'll cite the most glaring example of this, Prohibition and it's aftermath. The law was subverted because our Federal Constitution enumerates rights it doesn't take them away. So speakeasies came about as did Al Capone and his ilk.
My point is also this, who's version of morality do we use as the paradigm? Do we use the Baptists? Methodists? Catholics? If so then what are folks who aren't those do about it? Such laws do not reflect their values system, nor does it reflect mine. In this case Sir, I do say the ends justify the means because to do otherwise is to tell people what they can or cannot spend their money on, and dictating one's morality to another is just plain dumb. With respect,
Posted by panther1960 (anonymous) on February 3, 2010 at 2:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The State Supreme Court has ruled that the electronic bingo machines such as the ones at White Hall and Victoryland are nothing more or less than slot machines. And slot machines are against the law in Alabama.
Troy King doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to enforce the law and risk losing votes in the next election, so he goes, as does any sly and cunning politician, the way the wind blows.
I don't have a dog in this fight, and my only objections are those from a moral viewpoint, but if the machines violate the the law, shut 'em down. Or change the law.
Posted by middleofnowhere (anonymous) on February 4, 2010 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mr. Garrard
The question is a moral issue. What happened to the separation of church and state? Yes state legislation bans gambling, but people are trying to change this law. I would like to hear what your congregation has to say about gambling. How many of those that says amen to your sermons about the sins of gambling venture to the Indian casinos. Sir gambling is gambling do you purchase a raffle ticket from school children your money goes into a pot for you to possibly win a prize. What is a lottery, the exact same thing? My mother goes to church every Sunday, but yet when Governor Siegelman presented a lottery plan for the citizens of Alabama to vote upon they voted no. But yet they fund Florida scholarships and schools by playing the Florida lottery then as well as now 6 plays a week for 52 weeks. Sir have you ever visited a school in the state of Florida? I have yet to see a school in the shape of McKenzie or the old Georgiana School. Yes I know that Georgiana has a new modern and technically inclined school, but it came here recently not when it should have 20 or more years ago. The end does not always justify the means. I do believe that it would in this situation. I don’t see where the church can tell me what is legally wrong I am a sound man that can make his or her own decisions about morality. Sir my version may be a little different than yours I am not a member of your church or a church that is two faced such as these in the south, where people party on Saturday night and attend church on Sunday to speak of the evils of the drink. I feel that if I want to do something and vote for what I feel and the residence of this county and state feel is right than it is there decision not the decision of a clergyman or a particular church.
Posted by SHS84 (anonymous) on February 4, 2010 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Wow has this gotten interesting. They say electronic bingo games are illegal and it is immoral to gamble. This comes from a "Christian" society that is in an uproar. Are these people not the same people that pass you on the interstate at a high rate of speed heading to Biloxi. I know it is because I see them down there when I arrive. Speeding is against the law, and when they get a ticket they go crying to the mayor to please tear up the ticket. People are more willing to give money either for a lottery ticket, slot machine, or at the card tables that I love to play at, than pay more taxes. If the State of Alabama wants to help out the struggling educational system then legalize gambling. If not, then get out of my way in the south bound lane of I-65 because I am headed to Biloxi. And to the pastors of churches in the area. Do you wonder where your members are on Sunday? They are in Biloxi with me.
Posted by INI (Rob Mello) on February 5, 2010 at 11:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Personally I don't intend on demeaning anyone's beliefs (theologically). I will say it again though. In the US all the public school systems are funded one of two ways. Lotteries and land taxes. So this leaves us three options. Pick your poison with the aforementioned, or re-write teh Constitution and base education spending NOT on the fluctuations of the market but something more solid. Having teachers etc stressing over proration while they should be focusing on educating is silly and ignorant. So if you think gambling is illegal because it's a sin (which is mentioned nowhere in teh Bible) then I wonder why the divorce rate (which IS mentioned in the NT as one of the greatest sins) exists at all.
Posted by panther1960 (anonymous) on February 6, 2010 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
INI...without re-reading all of the above posts, I can't recall anyone making a theological argument against gambling, or bingo specifically. The bible does state, in the New Testament, that anything that is not done in faith is sin. But the moral objections that I mentioned in my other post have to do with someone neglecting the needs of their family while contributing to the wealth of the casino operators, not on some biblical principle.
Someone has mentioned Florida's schools being funded by their lottery and being so much better than ours. Actually, and I know from experience, their schools aren't that much better than ours. And rather than all the proceeds from the lottery going to education, that is simply not true. Lottery proceeds go into the educational fund, but not as much goes into the educational fund from other sources such as property and sales taxes, so it's pretty much a wash. And speaking of better funding, do you realize their property taxes are almost 4 times higher than ours and their tax base is much broader. Do you think the citizens of Alabama would go for a higher property tax?
Back to theological arguments, the only thing close to that is Christians, and Baptists specifically, being blamed for the casinos being closed by those who want to gamble.
You want to use education as an excuse for gambling? Make the machines legal or increase property taxes or change the law. But don't blame Christianity.
Posted by INI (Rob Mello) on February 6, 2010 at 1:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Panther- I mentioned Christianity because christian groups were largely responsible for the defeat of the ballot measure back in 2000 of a State lottery. The ironic part is that the backbone of the anti-lottery establishment at that time was the Alabama Christian Coalition. Which has since been proven to have taken monies from not only Jack Abmrahoff, but from out of state casinos for their anti-lottery campaign in Alabama. Those are facts.
http://www.wkrg.com/alabama/article/ala....
http://www.flalottery.com/inet/education...
Florida only lags behind ALabama in high school graduation rates. Literally every other statistic they are ahead, and in some cases well ahead of Alabama. To address the property tax thing Florida's home values are also wayyyyy ahead of Alabama's. So yes, their property taxes are higher, so are their median incomes.
Another interesting fact I found is that Florida has 9 of the top 100 high schools in the nation, whereas Alabama has... one.
The bottom line of my argument is akin to yours. Panther. No, the People will not go for a tax increase period. AND if gambling is a ... vice, then we'd best pray for mana from heaven to get the children the education they NEED to not only compete in the world they'll go into, but succeed. Prayers and good examples alone will not suffice, good teachers, facilities, books, computers etc, all these things cost money. The more money a system has to work with the better teachers can be purchased, the better opportunity for our kids.
and I don't blame christianity, but I do blame christians.
Posted by INI (Rob Mello) on February 6, 2010 at 1:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Rather folks that claim to be such.
Posted by antiky (anonymous) on April 1, 2010 at 10:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The first sentance in the above article says
Gov. Riley is trying to do away with ALL gambling. I don't
believe that is a true satement. I think Gov. Riley has been
trying to uphold the state constitution. The sad fact is that
a few counties have found a quiet loophole to "Legalize"
some type of gambling. Gov. Riley has been trying to close
that hole. I think that if enough people in the STATE of
ALABAMA wants gambling, so be it - let us vote for it! All
the proposed legislation is for nothiong but muddying the water.
Posted by givemeabreak (anonymous) on May 17, 2010 at 5:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Just a thought here... Isnt gambling basically buying in on a chance to win something larger? Put a dollar bill in a slot machine to have a chance to win more dollar bills? So can someone tell me the difference in the little old ladies selling raffle tickets for home made blankets and such? Thats still buying in on a chance to win something greater. What about the schools selling $5 dollar tickets for a chance to win gift cards to walmart? They are raising money for their school... by gambling. Everything you do in life is a gamble. Its just some things are more of a risk than others. Nothing in life is certain except death. If I want to go to Atmore, or white hall and spend my hard earned money on a chance, then so be it. I worked for my money and I can spend it any way I choose. If Alabama doesnt want my money I am sure Florida and Mississippi do. You want to call me stupid and foolish, then so be it. Its going to take a heck of a lot more than a few typed words to break the person I am. Sticks and Stones.
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